Throughout the day, I’ve been reflecting on the concept of submission in the Abrahamic faiths. I thought of how easily I accepted it. I was told that the Scriptures were from God Himself, so I went along with it. But lately I find myself questioning all of it. It’s just odd to me that all of these ideas regarding the need to subjugate women came from the mouths of men. The prophets of God were always men. The religious leaders in Abrahamic faiths tend to be men. It seems awfully convenient to me that God seems to always choose men to express His Word to, and this special Word always empowers men…
Oh wait! Physics was founded and developed by men (ditto biology, chemistry, literature, philosophy, history, whatever…everything remotely good or useful, ad infinitum, ad naseam). I have an idea, why don’t you just abandon everything men ever had any hand in and go back to living in forests and surviving on acorns and berries? At least then you’d be consistent in your feminism. lol.
Face it- women have pretty much always played second fiddle to men, and if your example is anything to go by, feminism doesn’t have much to look forward to.
*facepalm*
WM you might want to slow down and re-read what I actually posted. Not only have you completely missed the point, you are ascribing ideas to me that I do not hold. I certainly take issue with more traditional interpretations of Islam and Christianity, and the detrimental effect that both have historically had on women.
However I do not, and never have,considered myself a feminist. While I am incredibly grateful for the rights that the Women’s Rights movement secured for me in my country, I have always been critical of some of the excesses of Western feminism. Furthermore, as a Black American woman of working-class origin, American feminism has often ignored the experiences of my demographic and pushes me to choose between my gender and my race, which I refuse to do.
The fact that women have always played second fiddle to men in certain cultures is not in dispute here, WM, that is well-established. I did not say or even imply that women should “abandon everything that men had a hand in”. That is an incredibly bizarre argument to draw out from this post and I have no idea where you got that from.The point is that it is odd that MEN always claim that GOD told MEN they get to be the boss.
As for your statement that men have established and historically dominated all of the fields that you mention-geez WM, did you stop to think that maybe, just MAYBE, the oppression and denial of basic rights to women up until the Twentieth century could have something to do with that that?
In closing, that fact that something has “always” been a certain way surely doesn’t make it right. Slavery is something that has also “always” been around. Proponents of it used your same argument to justify it. I thank God that some people had the good sense to realize that something “always” being a certain way doesn’t make it acceptable, otherwise my ancestors would have never been freed.
“However I do not, and never have,considered myself a feminist. While I am incredibly grateful for the rights that the Women’s Rights movement secured for me in my country, I have always been critical of some of the excesses of Western feminism. Furthermore, as a Black American woman of working-class origin, American feminism has often ignored the experiences of my demographic and pushes me to choose between my gender and my race, which I refuse to do.”
That’s a classic description of third-wave feminism (Wiki or Google it or something). Trust me on this one: you’re a feminist.
“That is an incredibly bizarre argument to draw out from this post and I have no idea where you got that from.The point is that it is odd that MEN always claim that GOD told MEN they get to be the boss.”
Er…I wasn’t claiming you said that. I was making a polemical point, and somewhat facetiously, based on what you said i.e. that something is problematic because men have something to do with it. Anyhoo- it’s kind of self-evident that men are the ‘boss’- they always have been, pretty much, and for good reason.
“In closing, that fact that something has “always” been a certain way surely doesn’t make it right.”
I agree. What God says is what makes a thing right. Or wrong.
“Slavery is something that has also “always” been around. Proponents of it used your same argument to justify it.”
And that’s an entirely fair use of it. After all, if you believe slavery *is* wrong, what makes it so? What makes anything right or wrong?
And for homework I’d like you to read Lynn Hunt’s ‘Inventing Human Rights’. She’s a respected cultural historian and by no means an ‘Islamist’, whatever that means.
If you can’t be bothered, I’ll summarise for you: slavery and related practices are wrong because a. Rousseau wrote Emile b. Richardson wrote Clarissa c. Voltaire defended Calas and by 1760 sort of changed his mind and said something was wrong with judicial torture d. er…it’s just wrong? lol, what a pathetic argument. And I’m barely exaggerating! She admits that the human rights argument is completely, utterly, totally circular- there it is! Straight from the horse’s mouth!
And I doubt you can do any better than her.